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I’m often asked what my favorite cookbooks are and invariably I pull out a copy of The Zuni Cafe Cookbook by Judy Rodgers. It’s one of those rare books where you learn something from every sentence on every page, and in every recipe that you make from it. Judy was an amazing cook and whatever she made was unusually good, in spite of its (seemingly) relative simplicity, ranging from the lightest ricotta gnocchi you’ll ever have to the legendary Zuni roast chicken, which was worth the one-hour wait after you ordered it at the restaurant. It gave you plenty of time to have a margarita, a pile of shoestring fries, and a classic Caesar Salad. (Fun fact: I worked at Zuni Cafe when I first moved to San Francisco and made a lot of Caesar Salads, which, if I may be so bold, were excellent and the recipe is in the book.)

Judy was a big proponent of salting and brining meat, which should be done 2 to 3 days before you plan to cook it. The idea of salting meat, which I do as soon as I get it home, isn’t new but every few years, someone comes out with more or additional information about the flavor benefits of salting and brining, which brings the technique back to the forefront.

Some people think that salting meat draws moisture out, which is true…in the short term. But if you let it rest for longer, as food science writer Harold McGee says, salt helps cells hold on to water. (There’s a more complex discussion about it here, along with other types and ratios for brine.) However I’ve been using a variation of this simple brine for decades with great results.

Pork is a lot leaner and has less-flavor than it used to. While it’s more of a challenge to find it, “heritage” pork tastes better than standard supermarket pork. Whole Foods and nose-to-tail butcher shops in the U.S. are best bets, as are Terroirs d’Avenir, Biocoop, and Viande & Chef in Paris. I’ll admit that I often go to my local charcuterie at the outdoor market and buy from them. Wherever you shop in France, butchers offer pre-brined pork (demi-sel) or fresh (frais) and I buy fresh, and brine it myself.

Those who like to customize recipes will be happy to hear you can add any aromatics you’d like. You want to “go big” and use things with lots of flavor, such as crushed allspice or juniper berries, bay leaves, cracked black pepper, dried chilis, and chili flakes. What I give below in the recipe is just a suggestion. I do like the juniper berries with pork but if you can’t find them, you could add a pour of gin – a tablespoon or two – to the cooled brine. Or you can skip the aromatics and just go ahead and make the simple brine with salt and sugar and use that.

Many of the French cuts of pork correspond with American cuts, unlike beef which is prepared differently. French butchers offer pork like the roast below, which is called a rôti de porc. Pork tenderloin is called filet mignon (but sometimes filet mignon de porc), which confuses Americans who associated filet mignon with beef. What I use is called pork loin in the U.S. There’s a good explanation of the various types of pork loin available in the States here. You can brine pork tenderloin if you wish, but you should skip the finishing in a hot oven as it’s quite lean and may dry out. I answered some FAQs just after the recipe about what types of pork I recommend using, and more.

In France, people tend to braise pork either on the stovetop or in the oven, which results in tender meat and works very well for brined pork. I gave oven-roasting a go this time around, using the method outlined here, which yields a beautiful crust, and used some hard apple cider in the cooking liquid.

A few years ago pork was branded as “the other white meat” but it could also be called “the most misunderstood meat,” in terms of cooking temperatures. People get spooked when pork has any rosy color to it at all, although ham gets a pass. The pork board and USDA recommend cooking pork to an internal temperature of at least 145ºF (63ºC) and this article, the case for rare pork, goes into more depth on that topic. I cook it to the minimum temperature as I like it moist inside, but you’re welcome to cook it longer.

Brined Roast Pork

You want to use a relatively large, deep bowl or another container (such as a deep plastic one) that will comfortably fit the meat in it, submerged, along with the brine. If you have a little extra brine, you don't need to add it all, but you want enough to cover the meat. Feel free to use whatever aromatics you'd like. I gave quantities for what I used but you can swap out crushed allspice berries or a few cloves, or leave them out altogether.
Make sure the brine is cold before you add the meat - it should be "refrigerator cold" (about 40ºF/4ºC) - and don't re-use the brine.
Note that the pork roast I used was already tied, and didn't have a thick layer of fat on it. If yours does, it may throw off some additional fat, so you may wish to find a roast that's been trimmed of some of its thick fat. In the U.S. the cut that I used is called pork shoulder roast.
Course Main Course
Servings 4 servings

For the brine

  • 5 cups 1,25l water
  • 1/3 cup (60g) packed light or dark brown sugar
  • 3 tablespoons gray sea salt or Diamond Crystal kosher salt, (if using Morton's kosher salt, reduce it to 2 tablespoons)
  • aromatics, such as 4 crushed bay leaves, 18 crushed juniper berries, 1/2 teaspoon red pepper flakes, (optional)

For the roast pork

  • 1 1/2-2 pound (700g-1kg) boneless pork shoulder roast, butcher-tied, if possible
  • low-sodium stock, or a mix of water, white wine, or apple cider, or just water
  • 1 to 2 chopped shallots, or minced cloves garlic, and a few branches of fresh thyme, (optional)

To brine the pork

  • In a small saucepan, heat 1 cup (250ml) of water with salt, sugar, and aromatics, if using, stirring until the sugar and salt are dissolved. Once the mixture is warm, turn off the heat and let stand 10 minutes.
  • Find a deep container with the capacity to hold the pork and 5 cups (1,25l) of brine. Add the dissolved salt and sugar mixture with the infused aromatics to the bowl. Fill a 4 cup (1l) measuring cup with ice then add enough cool water to reach the 4 cup mark. Add the 4 cups of ice water (add the water and ice) to the bowl and stir. Put the pork roast in the cold brine, cover it with a plate to keep it submerged in the brine, and refrigerate for 2 to 3 days.

To roast the pork

  • Preheat the oven to 325ºF (165ºC.)
  • Remove the pork from the brine. Rinse it and dry it with a paper towel. (Be sure to clean your sink thoroughly afterward.) Put the pork in a baking dish that will fit it comfortably with some room around it, but not too large. Add liquid (low-sodium stock, or a combination of cider, white wine, and water) to the baking dish so it's about 1/2-inch (1,75cm) deep. If you'd like, add a few branches of thyme and a chopped shallot or two. I used a scant cup (250ml) of liquid but it may need more.
  • Roast the pork, checking the progress every 15-20 minutes, adding more liquid if the liquid gets close to completely evaporating. (Important: Don't let the liquid run dry if using a ceramic, glass, clay, or similar vessel. It can shatter if you pour liquid into a hot, dry baking dish.) There should always be 1/2-inch (1cm) of liquid in the baking dish. The pork roast will be done in 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 hours, depending on the size. It's done with the temperature reaches 145ºF (60ºC) if using an instant-read thermometer. Let cool for 30 minutes at room temperature. Pour the liquid into a small saucepan. If you'd like more liquid to serve with the pork you can add a little more stock and warm it before serving.
  • To finish the pork, preheat the oven to 475ºF (250ºC) and move the oven rack to the top third of the oven. Set the pork on a clean baking sheet.
  • Roast the pork until it's well-browned, which will take 12 to 20 minutes. Mine took almost the full 20 minutes but go by look and color rather than a strict cooking time.

Notes

Serving: Serve the pork warm, sliced, with some of the cooking liquid. It goes well with vegetables, rice, potatoes, roasted root vegetables, or shredded cabbage slaw.

A few FAQs

Can I use this brine for pork chops or pork tenderloin?

Yes, the brine works very well with pork tenderloin. Because it is leaner, I would only brine it 1-2 days, then bake as you normally would a pork tenderloin. You can brine pork chops the same way and either rinse and pat dry, then pan fry or grill them. I have also used this with boneless pork loin roast and it works well. For these leaner types of pork, omit the final finishing in a very hot oven.

Can I use this brine for chicken or turkey?

Yes, Judy recommends increasing the water to 6 cups and decreasing the sugar to 3 tablespoons and letting the chicken brine 2-3 days. For turkey, increase the water to 7 1/4 cups and decrease the sugar to 3 tablespoons, or using those proportions to make enough brine to submerge your turkey, letting the turkey brine 5 to 6 days. Deb of Smitten Kitchen has a  recipe for brining boneless skinless chicken breasts here.

I have another size pork roast. Can I use that?

Sure. I used a 2-pound (~1kg) pork roast but you can use whatever size you’d like. If using a large pork roast, you may need to cook it longer than indicated in the recipe and make more brine to cover it.

How do I get crisp skin?

You’ll notice the pork roast I used doesn’t have a lot of fat on the outside, which makes the crispy skin in dishes like porchetta. Mine was dark with some texture but not shatteringly crisp. That requires a different cut of pork and a specific recipe.

Can I reuse the brine?

Nope. The brine shouldn’t be reused.

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56 comments

    • Martha

    David, can I sous vide the brined roast?

    • Deborah Mintcheff

    Thanks for reminding me of the wonderful Zuni Cafe Cookbook. I used to read it cover to cover a year, but somehow I’d forgotten. I’ve just eyed it on the shelf and am taking it down.

      • Karin Pereira

      Funny, I did the same thing but wondering how our thoughts go with all the cookbooks around, new and old? I try to make a point of getting the oldies but goodies out and are amazed what I have forgotten to cook, i.e now Alice Water’s Simple Cooking.

        • Deborah

        Totally agree Karin. I am constantly removing cookbooks from my collection but there are some beauties that I still love to read and learn from. I also love Michael Field’s All Manner of Food.

    • Jim

    Under the FAQ “I have another size pork roast,” you say 2-pound (2kg). Clearly a typo! As the British rhyme has it, “Two and a quarter pounds of jam, Weighs about a kilogram.”

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      Ah, the joys of writing in two systems of measurements! Can’t wait ’til everyone decides on just one : )

      Fixed!

        • Amy

        Hi, David – thank you for this. Can’t wait to try it and explore the Zuni Cafe cookbook! Can you explain which direction to cut the roast? Sometimes, I feel like the slices cut one way are drier than those cut another but can’t remember which is best??? Thank you!

      • Karen DP

      Jim,
      Thank you. I love learning about this rhyme. Wish I would have known it when teaching math measurements!

    • Nathalie

    Interesting. Could this be used for rôti de veau as well? Or lamb?

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      I’ve not used it for veal or lamb so don’t know. I don’t think people brine lamb although people brine beef for things like corned beef, so it may be possible. If you try it, let us know how it works out.

    • Bonnie

    Hi David~
    I went to Zuni waaaay back because I went to college will Bill West and wanted to eat at his restaurant. I loved it then and have loved it in the ensuing years. Interesting to know you worked there. Did you know Bill?
    I started to follow you this year during the pandemic and have really enjoyed your blog and Instagram live videos. I really like the ones where you talk about what you bought in the market. You have a very likable manner. I think we could be friends but alas, I live in Chicago and you are in Paris. I just finished L’Appart and yikes! what a nightmare-made ME anxious.
    Looking forward to more and don’t let any negative comments get you down.
    Stay well,
    Bonnie

    • Connie

    I love the Zuni cookbook! I always recommend it and it’s definitely up there as one of my favorites, along with Salt, Fat, Acid & Heat, and My Paris Kitchen. ;). We make the pork brine recipe frequently, but since there’s only 3 of us at home, we use extra thick bone in pork chops, brine for 4 days and grill them (5-4-3). Goes nicely with roasted sweet potatoes, grilled broccolini and a glass of Domaine Tempier.

    • Margaret

    Would you post your Zuni Café Caesar salad recipe? Thanks David!

    • Janet

    Hi David,
    The recipe title reads: Brined Roast Brine
    I’ve been meaning to pick up the cookbook. Will do that now.
    Thanks for the heads up!

    • Julie

    What about brining in a sealable plastic bag? This would use a lot less brine and easily completely cover the pork.

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      Sure. Some people don’t like to use plastic bags (for a variety of reasons) but you could use one for the brine.

    • David
    David Lebovitz

    Martha: I have a sous-vide machine…but have never used it (!) so can’t say.

    Janet: Hmmm. The recipe plug-in is supposed to pull the title of the post as the title of the recipe but I’ll dive into the code and get it right. Thanks #technology

    Margaret: I never used a recipe as I was making them in the restaurant but the recipe in her her book.

    Bonnie: Yes, when I worked there Billy was the owner. It was half the size it is now, and had just graduated from being more of a coffee shop to a restaurant. It was that era when “California Cuisine” was becoming a big thing and Zuni was at the forefront of that. I worked there under a different chef than Judy, but worked with her at Chez Panisse.

      • Diane

      Do you remember Red Desert across the street? I am feeling terribly nostalgic, thank you.

    • Di

    Hello it looks wonderful… is there a substitute for juniper berries? I’ve never seen them at Whole Foods.

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      You don’t have to use them, they’re just a suggestion. Allspice berries have a nice flavor and those could be used too :)

        • Di

        Thanks I cannot wait to try it out.

      • Martha

      I always pour in a healthy shot of London Dry gin. It’s major flavor is juniper.

    • Fran @ G’day Souffle’

    I know what you mean about filet mignon. I bought some in Paris and was surprised to see it was pork instead of beef!

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      That also happens with “escalope” – people think they are getting scallops (the seafood kind) but it usually means veal scallop.

    • Sally

    David – when you say “Pork Roast” exactly what cut are you talking about? Pork loin? Pork Shoulder?
    We live in LA, but on trips to San Francisco back in the day always tried to have a dinner at Zuni. You may have made my usual Caesar salad!

    • Den M.

    David,
    Your further thoughts please on the cut. In U.S. the pork roast usually says boneless shoulder roast, butt roast or loin roast (not tenderloin). Would you consider the piece you used a shoulder?

    • David
    David Lebovitz

    Sally and Den: I looked around the internet and saw that it is referred to as pork shoulder roast. There is also pork butt which, oddly, is from above the shoulder, not the back. But that seems to be a fattier cut than this.

    • Bonnie

    I love using this pork in the “Pork, Fennel, and Lemon Ragu with Pappardelle” from some website a few years ago…really great in the snowy winter days we have here in Colorado!

    • ron shapley

    But Judy “dry brined the chicken…. Just sayin’

    • Deb

    How do you think crushed cardamom seed would work as an aromatic addition? Or better to add it during roasting?

    • Deb

    You might be able to weight the brining roast down under the brine with a ziplock filled with water; my brining container is a rectangle so I would need to use this solution. I do this to keep my my sauerkraut submerged.

    • Patrick

    The pork butt, or Boston Butt, is from the upper part of the shoulder. It is more marbled and, since the muscle is less used, more tender. The pork shoulder is below the butt. It is leaner and tougher as the muscle is used more. If the cooking method is low and slow I’ve found little difference in the cuts.

    The difference in butchering between France and USA is confusing, but can be entertaining. You should have heard the butcher in St. Aignan when our American expat friends tried to order a beef brisket to smoke for the 4th of July!

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      Yes the differences are quite interesting. A French friend (who used to live in the US) once ordered a whole brisket, which was something like 10 pounds from a butcher in France that specializes in American cuts of beef and he gave me a slab. But most cuts don’t correspond exactly to their U.S. counterparts.

        • Susan B

        Years ago the American Church in Paris offered a general acculturation course for expats, mostly American women married to men who had taken jobs in Paris. The class was called “Cuts of Meat” (though that was possibly a nickname devised by the church staff), because butchering is one of many mundane but dramatic differences in the way the French and Americans live their daily lives.

      • snuffcurry

      Hmm, what we call Butt in the US (named after a vessel used in New England for preparing this cut of pork) is the blade shoulder, where the blade will be present unless boned by a butcher. It refers to the top half, the bit behind the head and neck, not the bottom, and is actually underworked rather than overworked so is considerably more tender but definitely fatty, benefitting a brine or rub and from low and slow cooking methods, as seen in carnitas or pulled pork. The bottom half is generally sold as a picnic shoulder, or less often as arm shoulder and will include both front legs unless removed. It’s the tougher of the two cuts but can be treated similarly, with the added the bonus of generally being bone-in and skin-on.

    • VICTORIA FAIRBANKS

    so thrilled to have this recipe. i am just off to pick up half of a Mangalitsa pig from my local farmer here on Whidbey Island . i have waited a couple of years for this pig…and this morning i get this wonderful recipe. thank you
    David!!!

    • Valerie

    David, I appreciate the thorough and detailed instructions.

    • Chuck

    I forgot how much I love your blog. I used to read it all the time but have forgotten it, along with lots of other things, lately. I’m catching up today! This looks wonderful, I’m going to make it tomorrow. I’ve become an expat like you, so greetings from the Philippines!

    • Jean

    Thanks David! I have 2 piles of cookbooks on my bedside table. The first pile is new cookbooks where I mark recipes to try. The second is a pile of oldies but goodies. It is time to put the Zuni Cookbook on the top of my pile of oldies but goodies. The next time I make a Caesar salad I will use the Zuni recipe. The pork may be our Easter dinner.

    • Daniel

    Hello, Do you think brining would work with Marcella Hazan’s pork loin braised in milk for 1.5 to 2 hours? I have always thought that today’s lean pork loin would come out bone dry with that recipe. Thanks!

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      I haven’t made that but suspect that since it’s braised in milk it wouldn’t really benefit from brining but if you give it a go, let us know how it turns out!

    • Elizabeth

    Love, love, love your posts. Thanks for keeping your blog going, David. It’s superb.

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      Thanks Elizabeth!

    • Pamela

    I love the Zuni cookbook. I have read and re-read every recipe again and again. I’ll be checking out the Caesar salad recipe again!

    A question and a request:

    Here in Japan I can’t get any of those fancy salts and I wondered what the gram amount might be for those 3 tablespoons of gray sea salt????

    My request, please, please always add the gram amounts for salt as Morton salt or Kosher flaky salt etc. are not available all over the world.

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      Judy’s book doesn’t give recipes in grams and I follow what is common in France in recipes and use teaspoons and tablespoons (they call them “coffee and soup spoons”) for quantities under 1/4 cup. I’m pretty tapped out writing recipes in two systems of measurements and can’t provide weights for all the various kinds of salt out there in reach recipe; two (or more) kinds of kosher salt, fine table salt, grey salt, fleur de sel, Maldon, etc., but here is a good guide to measuring by weight kosher salt, and the grey salt I use is 1 tablespoon = 12g, so you might want to print those out and keep them handy in your kitchen. Hope those help!

        • Pamela

        Thank you, thank you, David. I really appreciate your quick reply. And I understand completely what you are saying! But keep adding SALT GRAMS to recipes! Please! ;-)

        I wasn’t asking for salt grams for all the different salts out there – that is not needed – just the salt grams you used in your recipe is enough. I can just use that same grams in whatever salt I have here, mostly plain table salt. If I know the weight of the salt you were using, not the volume, I can just use the same amount of my salt.

        One of the issues people have with volume weights of salt is that flaky salt has more volume than table salt. And that kind of salt is not available in the whole world or in all kitchens. But if you know the GRAMS of flaky salt you can just use the SAME GRAMS of table salt (or whatever salt you have) and you’ll still be in the same ballpark.

    • Angelica

    Simply want to thank you for being and sharing, your blog is wonderful and I especially enjoy the clips on your shopping trips!
    Never lived in Paris, but now living in the Laurentians, in Quebec. I have experienced challenging similarites.

    • Arturo

    Hah, Pork is so much better cooked Medium! Love my mom if i cook pork loin for her she complains if it’s not blushing in the center!
    Do you like to serve this with a sauce or just a little mustard on the side?

    • Bill Murray

    I loved the Zuni Cafe. It was the highlight of any trip to San Francisco. We had a great & memorable Valentine’s Day meal when there was a blackout that hit much of SF.
    The roast chicken was a real treat.

    • Don

    Please add me to your regular recipe email send outs

      • David
      David Lebovitz

      I entered your email address in the form in the right sidebar of the blog so you should receive updates by mail.

    • Debbie

    I’ll never not brine pork again. So moist and flavorful. Can’t wait to use leftovers in sandwiches with a little slaw.

    • Mary

    Hi David, do you happen to know if I can start the brine when the roast is still partially frozen? It seems like there wouldn’t be a temperature issue because everything is cold but maybe a texture issue would be created?

    Thanks, always love your posts and recipes! Latest favorite is the caramel corn ice cream in your book a couple times and it’s to die for!

    • Marty

    I bought a pork butt at the farmer’s market just for this. Brined it for three days, and roasted it last night. Wonderful! Thank you so much for taking the time to post this.

    Lately, I’ve been turning to the 1973 Joy of Cooking. Seems very old-fashioned, but the restraint with ingredients makes the results much better. The Beef Stroganoff is awesome, as well as old-fashioned.

    • Jennifer Acchiardo

    I made this for dinner tonight. It is absolutely brilliant. Not even a scrap left for a sandwich tomorrow. Thank you.

    • Kelly

    David, My first time brining thanks to your recipe. Thick pork chops were delicious. Easy recipe and the ice water cool down is brilliant! Thank you.

A

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